AttractionPros Podcast

Episode 226: Josh and Matt talk about the attraction industry forecasts for 2022

There is a lot to look forward to in the new year.  Accelerated adoption of technology, increasing pent-up demand from the public to visit attractions, and enhanced experiences that embrace creative talent all fuel optimism for the future.  As we begin 2022, we put out a request for submissions for what to be on the lookout for to ensure a successful year.  Forecasts ranged from cautious to optimistic, and how businesses in the attractions industry should approach various initiatives including business strategy, technology, staffing & employment, guest experience, and social responsibility, all while remaining optimistic that the industry’s rebound from the pandemic will continue to strengthen.  In this episode, Matt and Josh discuss the takeaways from the latest e-book, Forecasts from AttractionPros, which is available for download here.

Business Strategy

 

From a high level, what strategy changes are you considering to keep pace with the rest of the industry and the world?  The attractions industry is expected to increase its adoption of dynamic pricing, implementation of intellectual property will see a shift from movies to video games, and FEC’s should gear their marketing towards hosting events beyond their existing birthday party program.  Additional parks may be sold, new parks potentially announced, and smaller attractions will take on more creative initiatives.

Technology

 

Emerging trends throughout the attractions industry will continue to accelerate, including automation and self-service, along with new methods of ordering and payment that streamlines processes and enhance the experience.  In response to the pandemic, technology is helping operators become more contactless, through gesture-based technology and cashless payments.  From an experiential standpoint, environments are becoming more immersive, through projection mapping, LED, and virtual reality.

Staffing & Employment

 

The staffing challenges of 2020 and 2021 will not see relief in 2022.  Attractions will need to be more creative in the way that they recruit and hire, leading through the entire employee journey of how leaders engage with employees and how compensation packages are put together.  There is clear demand for higher wages, especially when employees have options in other industries for higher pay and arguably better working conditions.  The employment landscape is changing drastically, and what may have worked just a few years ago may no longer be as effective.

Guest Experience

 

Premium experiences will present themselves as viable options for operators to implement in the interest of enhancing the experience while simultaneously increasing revenue and per capita spending.  Driving these decisions will be greater use of data from both passive and active guest behaviors that justify implementations of new experiences as well as operational efficiencies.  Venues that do not have the same resources as the bigger players can close the gap through immersive elements that surround their core product that enhance the overall experience.

Social Responsibility

 

Being a better steward for the planet will be critical, as will being at the forefront of initiatives that have historically taken a backseat.  Issues like climate change will challenge how attractions can reduce their carbon footprint, as well guide leaders through operational changes and opportunities for adapting to the changing world.  From a DEI perspective, attractions must pave the way toward a more inclusive world that goes beyond a social media post here and there: they must walk the walk and weave diversity, equity, and inclusion into their core DNA.

Optimism

 

At the beginning of the pandemic, the optimists predicted a pent-up demand that would drive a surge in attendance that helps the industry rebound.  They were right.  That demand is expected to continue into 2022 as the industry sees more and more openings of new attractions and venues, along with increased pricing with minimal elasticity.  People are anxious and excited to get out and play, and recognize the value of spending quality time with friends and family.

We’d like to thank everyone who contributed to this piece and shared their forecast for 2022.  To download the e-book, click here:

 

www.attractionpros.com/forecast22/

 

If you enjoyed the e-book and this podcast episode, please share it with your network and colleagues throughout the industry.

 

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 225: Phil Wilson talks about enjoying the ride, family matters, and innovative ride designs

Phil Wilson is the Executive Vice President of Extreme Engineering, a design firm Phil started with his Dad back in 1995. Since then they have created many award-winning attractions and have sustained a family business through some trying times. Their philosophy of “bringing the mountain to the people” served them well when creating their first portable climbing wall, and that attitude is still prevalent today as they design experiences that many different audiences can enjoy.

Enjoying the ride

 

“Don’t get caught up in getting this degree or achieving that milestone on a particular timeline.”

 

In college, Phil changed his major four times and still has questions about what he wants to do when he grows up. This accentuates Phil’s outlook that life is a journey and that we shouldn’t put too much pressure on ourselves to reach arbitrary or societal goals, just because others are doing that or because that’s what’s been done in the past.

 

In many ways, Phil states that it is the journey that actually determines the destination. While going to college, Phil was working in the business and found things he was good at and liked doing. It was that knowledge that then shaped his path to pursue the education that would allow him to further excel. 

 

Phil clearly embraces the journey mentality while traveling as well, sharing a story of how he and a friend ended up wearing lederhosen and drinking beer on stage in the middle of Oktoberfest in Vietnam!

Family Matters

 

“Every day you have with your parents and your kids, in a way, is your last day. Then you have to do it again the next day and the next day.”

 

Family businesses are tough. Business is tough enough, anyway, and then layer in the family dynamic and it’s no wonder that many family businesses fail. Phil has helped create an open space for family business owners to share and grow via the Family Matters session that has been a staple at the IAAPA Expo for 5 years.

 

In Phil’s own family business journey with his father, he has had to learn how to create and respect the boundaries of knowledge and expertise, and separate the family from the business.  He opened up about a particularly tough time with his Dad where they were at odds and Phil had to get away to gain some new perspectives. His work in bringing other family business owners together is his way to help make sure that doesn’t happen with other families as well.

Innovative Ride Design

 

“There is a huge void in our industry in terms of price and experience on what you can get for an amusement park.”

 

In recent years, the Extreme Engineering team has taken their “bring the mountain to the people” philosophy to the family coaster segment. Realizing the massive gap in price and experience for attractions that were available, they specifically set out to produce experiences that bridged the gap between multi-million dollar coasters and ½ million dollar or less midway attractions. 

 

They also designed a system to allow guests of varying abilities to experience parkour with Parkour Around. This computerized system calculates the amount of assist needed to allow guests to experience the attraction safely. Phil calls it the “SuperMario Experience”!

To learn more about Extreme Engineering, visit: https://extremeengineering.com/

 

To contact Phil: phil@extremeengineerinng.com

 

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 224: Bernie Campbell talks about bringing brands to life, perceived value, and creative problem solving

Bernie Campbell is a Regional VP of Sales for Whirley-DrinkWorks, which designs and manufacturers vessels for drinks and food items for theme parks and attractions, along with the programs that surround their sales.  Whirley-DrinkWorks is made up of Whirley, DrinkWorks, Easygo, and Valid Fill, which all serve a unique purpose for food and beverage containers.  Bernie has been in the attractions industry for more than 30 years, and is heavily involved with IAAPA as the chair of the Food & Beverage committee.  Bernie is also an avid water polo player, and despite not having had the chance to play since the beginning of the pandemic, would normally play two to three times a week.  In this interview, Bernie discusses bringing brands to life, perceived value, and creative problem solving.

Bringing Brands to Life

 

“It can be a lot of fun to help bring brands to life.”

 

It’s putting a drink in a container, but it’s more than that.  Oftentimes, when working with a large client such as Disney, Whirley-DrinkWorks will start from scratch when looking at the concept, theming, and intellectual property when it’s applicable.  When looking at going from concept to completion, it often involves building from the ground up, beginning with discussing the overarching concept and design, along with inputs from all necessary teams.  This can include ideation with the client, gaining approval from the park, the IP owner, as well as Coke and Pepsi in some instances.

 

The design of the vessel is also critical not only for the brand, but for awareness from other guests in the park.  When a guest buys a souvenir cub or bottle, the design acts as a walking billboard that represents the brand, which ultimately leads to higher demand for the vessel.

Perceived Value

 

“The souvenir beverage container is second only to the gate in revenue for a lot of theme parks.”

 

Souvenir containers can be very profitable.  Whirley-DrinkWorks has a playbook that identifies what will be successful.  When the playbook is executed successfully, it is a huge revenue driver for parks.  Bernie shares that even more than the value it brings, the perception of value can be even a greater attraction for people.  Guests have a high perception of value for a souvenir container that enables them to get free or low-cost refills throughout their day at the park, and then acts a souvenir when they get home.  The playbook also helps operators increase their penetration rate, which is the number of bottles sold divided by the total attendance.

 

Bernie also shares that the frontline food & beverage staff are a big influence on the success of the program.  The souvenir bottle is an easy suggestive sell due to its high perceived value, so it is one of the easier things to train a staff member to upsell due to a high win rate when offered.

 

It is also important to plant the seeds for the souvenir bottle throughout the park to make it easier for the staff to suggestively sell the bottle.  This includes signage at multiple points throughout the park and visual imagery at concession locations, rather than text on a menu board that says “Souvenir bottle.”  People need to regularly see the bottle throughout their visit and associate it with the perceived value that it brings, which will result in higher sales.

Creative Problem Solving

 

“When the programs became so successful, it actually became a problem.  We were clogging food lines up because people wanted to refill their beverages, and that was slowing transactions down.”

 

Over the years, challenges surrounding the souvenir bottle program have led to innovative and unique solutions.  For instance, guests who purchase a souvenir cup or bottle in a theme park are not permitted to take them on the majority of rides, specifically rides with stricter loose article policies, requiring the guest to place the bottle in a locker or leave it with a non-rider.  As the programs evolved and this challenge was identified, parks began implementing cubbies or holders on ride platforms that were specifically designed for souvenir bottles - many of them even mimicking the layout of the ride vehicle so guests can place the bottle in cupholder that is equivalent to their seat as to not confuse it with another guest’s.

 

Additionally, when it became clear that the #2 reason people wouldn’t buy a cup due to difficulty carrying around (#1 being price, which is expected), it was determined to add a strap or lanyard to the bottle that made it easier to carry.  This $0.07 item led to a 30-40% increased in sales in most parks.

 

Easygo, which is the RFID division of Whirley-DrinkWorks, is integral to self-service refills.  In the food & beverage world, increasing the number of transactions is important.  If it takes 20-30 seconds to transact and fill a vessel, and you can move the guests who are refilling their cup out of line, the concession can now fulfill that many more transactions.  It saves time and drives revenue even further.  When this was first installed on cruise ships, the benefits were noticed immediately.  Guests on a cruise ship with a souvenir bottle would previously need to have their bottle refilled at a bar, which takes time away from bartenders serving alcohol and also impacted their tips.

 

Due to COVID-19, many food & beverage operators have been trying to move away from fountain machines that require pushing a lever or a button in the interest of going contactless.  Valid Fill, which is Whirley-DrinkWork’s technology division, the team came up with a touchless valve, which plugs in to where the faucet is and you just need to break a line instead of touch the machine to fill up the cup.  There are also new developments in the pipeline, such as dishwashers that can clean vessels in more expedited manner, digital printing that allows the company to create smaller quantities and widen the number of businesses that they can serve.

 

When attending Broadway plays, one of the biggest frustrations that Bernie had was that guests could not bring a drink from the bar to their seat, which required them to drink it quickly before entering the theater.  When Bernie researched this, he learned that it was due to concern of spills in the theater.  By putting a lid on the cup, it would solve the problem, but it was not an idea that was adapter overnight.  Over the course of about 10 years, one theater decided to give the “adult sippy cup” a try.  As a result, they generated 8-10x revenue compared to prior the implemtnation.  The additional cost for the lid became insignificant compared to the revenue that was returned.  What ultimately started as Bernie looking to solve a problem for himself ended up being a million dollar idea.

 

When asked about unique or unusual vessels, Bernie shared the story of a martini glass used for Radio City Music Hall that had a stem resembling Rockette legs, which turned into the “Rockettini.”

 

Bernie can be reached at whirleydrinkworks.com, along with all information regarding all products and divisions within the company.

 

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 223: Matt and Josh talk about executives with experience outside the industry, expecting change & being onboard, and breaking glass ceilings

The topics for this episode were crowd-sourced from AttractionPros listeners. The request was put out on social media to share topics or questions that Matt and Josh would discuss. We got a number of great suggestions that inspired a conversation that went in many different directions.  In this episode, Matt and Josh talk about executives with experience outside the industry, expecting change & being onboard, and breaking glass ceilings.

Experience outside the industry

 

"Being able to see the influence of other industries adds a whole new dynamic."

 

Many people, including Matt and Josh, consider it a badge of honor to have “grown-up” in the attractions industry. Stories of current executives starting out as sweepers, ride attendants or photographers on the frontlines are very common, however with a new batch of executive leadership changes at companies like Disney, Six Flags and Universal, we’re seeing more of a willingness to look outside the potential “echo chamber” to embrace new directions for the industry to grow.

 

And it’s necessary. The attractions industry isn’t delivering the exact same product it was even 10 years ago, nor should it. As consumers’ needs and desires change, so too should the way we interface with them. Mobile ordering, dynamic pricing, enhanced food and beverage, and increased VIP experiences are all examples of us allowing ourselves to be influenced by other industries. This new crop of leaders will no doubt be willing to try things the industry has never seen before. 

Expecting change and being on board

 

"As you approach this from the middle of an organization, you know change is going to be inevitable."

 

With all the leadership changes being announced, the question of “how do leaders within the company handle that?” It’s a great question. First, we must recognize and be ready for the fact that change WILL happen. Whenever there is that much of a shake-up at the very top of an organization, there will be philosophy and strategic changes that will likely alter the way business is conducted. It’s natural to resist this because it's different and unknown, but we must resist the urge to resist!  Sometimes from the middle of an organization we don’t have access to all of the information that executives are using to make decisions, but we owe it to them, our peers, our teams and our guests to get on board and make the best of the changes you are being asked to make. If you end up sabotaging their efforts through your stubbornness, you can’t blame the executive when their initiative fails. 

 

This doesn’t mean you should blindly accept new policies and changes. You have a responsibility to ask questions, to clarify, and to understand the changes so you can carry them out correctly AND communicate them to your team.

 

Breaking glass ceilings

 

“It’s not yet normalized for [a woman] to be in that role.”

 

Josh and Matt discuss the need or validity of including gender or race classifications in article headlines. A LinkedIn post questions whether or not it should have been noted that Disney appointed the first woman chairperson, or should the story be about hiring the right person for the job?

 

There are a few angles to consider.  From a human standpoint, both Matt and Josh agree that no, that classification probably doesn’t need to be in the headline. However, if the article writer is looking for clicks or opens, they are likely going to create the most provocative title they can think of. Until it’s normal for non-white males to be in the executive positions we’re talking about, journalists will likely continue to point out those characteristics to get people to read or react to their articles. 

 

Yet another viewpoint to consider is that if individuals don’t see themselves in the roles they aspire to, it’s harder for them to picture themselves doing that and therefore more difficult to find the path forward potentially. So if an article says that Disney has appointed a woman or that the first openly gay football has been drafted into the NFL, it gives hope and a role model to others.

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 222: Matt and Josh talk about the lost art of listening, reflection & reinvention, and the future of the industry

The IAAPA Expo has officially returned in person!  From November 15th-19th, 2021, the global attractions industry convened once again in Orlando for the annual trade show and conference, after a hiatus in 2020 that was replaced with a virtual education conference.  During the show, Matt and Josh were both heavily involved in the conference’s education sessions, speaking, moderating, or participating in a variety of topics.  In this episode, Matt and Josh talk about the lost art of listening, reflection & reinvention, the future of the industry, and other takeaways from the sessions they led or spoke in during the expo.

 

The Lost Art of Listening

“The emotional impact of being listened to is so close to that of being loved that most people can't tell the difference.”

 

At the beginning of the pandemic, Matt published the link to his calendar and extended an offer for anyone in the industry to schedule a call with him, with our without an agenda.  In these calls and combined with his research, Matt shares that when you listen to someone without making assumptions, you can show someone how much you truly care.  Putting it into the context of leadership, if you are trying to look at how you are engaging with your employees, then it is not about the giveaways, incentives, or pizza parties, but about making a personal connection.  There are so many things that can distract us or pull us away from a conversation, but by actively eliminating these distractions you can show the individual who is speaking that you are actively listening.

Building a Personal Brand

“Your personal brand is more than a business card and a resume.”

 

If you are looking to get promoted, get a new job, or win new business, you should be in the business of yourself, regardless of your job title or employer.  If you can find a category and own it, it can set you apart from other people.  When listing out your unique qualifications, many people might indicate that they are confident, trustworthy, compassionate, or self-motivated; however, these skillsets do not differentiate you from anybody else.  If you go all-in on a niche, then people have a specific need, they will think of you and the skills that you bring to the table related to solving that specific problem.  Your brand is about your reputation and your actions, and what you want to be known for.  Rather than putting it on a business card or a resume, you need to live it and be consistent, and recognize that this is playing the long game, and you don’t decide when you get there.  Don’t be impatient, but be persistent.

It never hurts to ask for things

“As you grow in your business, you get more willing to ask for the things that you think you may not get.”

 

While planning the Leadership Symposium taking place at Universal Orlando, Matt gently made the request for the group to be able to ride Velocicoaster in addition to the panel discussion focused on networking and learning about leadership.  Had he not asked, it never would have happened.  The takeaway from Matt’s request was the importance of speaking up and reaching out with a request or a favor.

 

Don’t Wait for a Pandemic

"Reflection and reinvention is cyclical.”

 

In the Leadership Symposium, Matt King from Meow Wolf shared that the process of “reflection and reinvention is cyclical.”  We don’t have to have a pandemic to reflect on what we’ve done to reflect or reinvent ourselves.  Rather than becoming complacent with where you are, you should have a continual process when you review your past successes and failures and make changes and adjustments as necessary.  Even though we are all tired of the term “the new normal,” there is no going back to the “old normal” from prior to the pandemic.  Many new processes, procedures, and changes to operating models were forced due to the pandemic, which resulted in both reflection and reinvention.  How are you ensuring both R&R even without a pandemic?

Using Technology to Enhance the Guest Experience

"Your guest experience technology should focus on serving your guests, not just be a fancy tech."

 

In a conversation about technology, the main focus of the discussion highlighted the guest, rather than the technology.  Fancy technology is just fancy tech unless you are using it to better serve your guests.  For instance, when looking at advance purchases for buying tickets to an attraction, there is a large push for guests to buy their tickets online which will save time and labor resources onsite.  At SkyWheel, however, which has locations in Myrtle Beach and Panama City Beach, the majority of guests are drawn in by the wheel’s “curb appeal” and therefore they focus more on impulse buys.  However, instead of ignoring online ticket sales, SkyWheel encourages guests to buy online, even while they’re onsite, by positioning QR in their admissions area for guests to quickly load the website and go straight to the ticket purchase page.  The guest can make the purchase with their own device and then proceed directly to the wheel.

Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion

"Be authentic, and if you don't know, don't be afraid to ask."

 

If someone has a different view of the world from you, they need to know that they can come to work and be themselves, and not feel that they are being marginalized.  One of the conversations that came up during a panel discussion during a lunch and learn for FEC’s involved a story where an individual reached out to their local African American Alliance chapter and inquired as to the best ways to interact with them.  The response that the venue operator received was “We’re tired of telling you.  Be a nice human being, be kind, and treat me like you would like to be treated yourself.”  Instead, be authentic, which will make the questions more relatable and more specific than a general inquiry of how to interact with someone or a group of people.

 

The Young Professional View

"The young professionals are the future of the industry, and the future is looking good."

 

In a panel discussion on “Success Stories and Insights for Joining the Industry During Unusual Times,” AttractionPros interns Sam Bercik, Fabiana Fonseca, and Paige Reiter shared the timeline of their experience at the beginning of the pandemic, which led to how they continued their involvement with the industry as well as how they kept up to date with the latest job postings and opportunities.  It was inspiring how each of the panelists has stayed motivated since March 2020, which genuinely spoke to the audience full of young professionals.  In another session geared toward young professionals, Jesse O’Daniel, chair of IAAPA’s Young Professional committee, stressed that the audience in the room is in fact the future of the industry.  Not only was her statement inspirational, but also literal in the sense that recent college graduates and those early in their careers will be shaping the industry in the not-too-distant future.

 

Reflecting on the Galaxy’s Edge cast

"The people delivering the experience are the ones who make it remarkable."

 

In 2021, the IAAPA Celebrates event took place at Galaxy’s Edge at Disney’s Hollywood Studios.  For those who attended or have visited since the land opened in 2020, there is general consensus that Rise of the Resistance and Smuggler’s Run are two of the greatest themed attractions ever created.  In addition to being flawlessly immersive and inclusive of the most advanced technology, Matt and Josh reflect mostly on the cast members who delivered the experience.  The cast at these attractions do not just perform operational duties with Disney caliber service, they perform the role that meets where guests are in the phase of the attraction.  The First Order cast carefully balances the line between being the militant “bad guys” but without coming across as rude or offensive, even though the traditional Disney magic takes a different form.  On Smuggler’s Run, a cast member put her glasses on crooked as guests were departing to reflect the intensity of the Millennium Falcon’s turbulent landing (no spoilers!).  The takeaway feeds perfectly into a quote from Walt himself when he said, “You can design and create the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality.”

 

We’d like to extend a special thanks to the entire IAAPA team for a phenomenal expo this year, and we are already looking forward to 2022.  Additionally, thank you to those who approached us during the show to let us know that you’re tuning in and are fans of the show.  This feedback is what keeps us going.  We are all AttractionPros!

 

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 221: Chris Hightower talks about setting goals, careers in engineering, and promoting diversity

Chris Hightower is a Senior Engineer in Technical Services with Universal Parks and Resorts. His career started at Universal in high school as a production cook, and after he got his degree in Electronics Engineering Technology (from FAMU), he found that Universal offered excellent career opportunities as well. In this wide-ranging conversation, Chris talks about his career path, giving back to the community and what it takes to be a theme park engineer.

 

Setting goals

"If you keep telling people your goals, they are going to want to help you get them."

 

Setting goals came up as a common thread when discussing networking, career advice and business practices in general. Chris emphasized that setting and achieving goals, large and small, helped him get to where he is and can be the difference between pursuing a career or continuing the cycle of letting your circumstances determine your future. 

 

Chris is a fan of the SMART goal setting model, where your goals have to be Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant and Timed. Adding these parameters ensure you will take the little steps necessary to achieve larger goals. 

 

Career in engineering

"We put you at the end of that robot and swing you around so you can have as much fun as possible."

 

Even starting as a production cook in high school, Chris always loved to tinker. He wanted to know how things worked and in some cases, how to break them. If he could break them, then he could figure out how to fix them, or even determine how to redesign them so they wouldn’t break in the first place.  This is a critical skill given that the rides he works on have to operate safely for long periods of time. 

 

Chris also feels that it is his desire to continue learning that continues to propel him forward. Whether it’s engaging in “tinker time”, experiencing attractions at other parks, or working to enhance current practices, Chris sees every experience as a way to grow and enhance his skills.

 

Promoting diversity

“Most people don’t believe in themselves or don’t believe [something better] is possible.”

 

As a Black engineer, Chris recognizes that he is someone that a young person would look up to as an example. He emphasizes that if a young person doesn’t see someone who looks “like them”, it’s for them to imagine themselves in that role. That’s one of the reasons Chris is so passionate about the community outreach that he does, going into local schools to talk to young people about career paths that they may not have thought of. He is also proud of the work he’s done to encourage students to pursue STEM curriculum to help educate and inspire future generations of engineers. 

 

For more about Chris, connect with him on LinkedIn.

 

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 220: Martin Lewison talks about dynamic pricing, theme park history, and connecting the missing link

Martin Lewison, PhD. is an Associate Professor of Business Management at Farmingdale State College on Long Island, NY.  Among the variety of courses Martin teaches, one of them is Theme Parks and Tourism, and much of his time is focused on research in the theme park industry.  As part of his research, Martin visits parks, rides roller coasters, and looks at the guest experience and operations to further understand what is working the best.  Martin brings back his findings, whether through onsite or offsite research and incorporates them into his academic focus, which includes tourism management, mergers and acquisitions, and the economics of pricing.  In this interview, we talk about dynamic pricing, theme park history, and connecting the missing link across history which has led to the technologies and experiences that we have today.

 

Dynamic pricing

"If I can charge the price that everyone's willing to pay, that'll maximize revenue."

Many of the elements of pricing that hotels, airlines, and rental cars deal with apply similarly to the theme park industry.  Many years ago, theme parks would paint their admission price on a piece of wood, hammer it into the wall, and that was the price.  This static pricing leaves money in the table, as there is a subset of people who will not pay that price, and there are also people who would pay more for that price.  Flash forward to today, many parks use television screens in all revenue areas, whether it is admissions or even food and beverage, allowing more flexibility in controlling the price.

 

Slagharen, a theme park in the Netherlands, was one of the pioneers in the theme park industry when it comes to dynamic pricing.  If you charge one price, then that’s the price that the customer sees.  If they’re willing to pay that price or more, then they’ll pay that price.  In an ideal world, you would be able to scan every guest and determine the maximum price that they are willing to pay.  Since we can’t see this, airlines and hotels utilize “rate fencing” to maintain revenue by segmenting their customers - in this case, business and leisure travelers.  These segments have different needs which will determine the elasticity of the demand, thus the pricing can be shifted based on the demographic that’s being served.

 

While the airline and hotel model doesn’t apply directly to the theme park industry, what theme parks have begun to do is signal guests for what is a premium experience.  Guests who are willing to pay the higher price are given the signal and those who have less elasticity are more likely to buy.

 

However, you cannot have a conversation about dynamic pricing without talking about the ethics of doing so, and how parks have managed the backlash and criticism.  For instance, the discontinuation of Disney’s complimentary FastPass system marked one of the last free programs that guests have to bypass the queue.  Martin’s responds by indicating that buying the premium product does in fact entitle the guest to the premium experience, relative to the other guests in the park (even though it may not be premium compared to visiting on another day when demand is less).

 

In many instances, it comes down to parents making the determination to take their children out of school during offpeak times.  Since much of the world follows a similar school schedule, peak and offpeak pricing encourages people to come during offpeak times, which requires parents to make the decision of whether their kids can miss class, or if they will pay the peak price.

 

As a management professor, Martin says that he teaches his class that they shouldn’t leave money on the table, but as an ethicist, he says that you cannot alienate your biggest fans.

 

Theme park history

"One of the reasons people love theme parks so much is because of nostalgia."

When Martin worked on Wall Street, he claims that the stress of working in finance was such a burden that on Friday afternoons, he and his wife would jump on a plane to just about anywhere where they could visit a theme park and ride roller coasters.  To date, Martin has visited more than 800 theme or amusement parks and has ridden more than 2,100 roller coasters.

 

One of the biggest reasons that the theme park industry has survived, thrived, and evolved, is because the desire to go out and have fun with your family is universal.  While much of the United States is considered to be a mature market for the theme park industry, Martin points out that there are currently major regions that don’t have a theme park, and that there are several parks that thrive despite their lack of connection to a large population center.

 

Martin shares a brief overview of parks that he has visited throughout the world, from obscure attractions in South America, to how meticulously immaculate Tokyo Disneyland is, and how beloved Efteling is in the Netherlands.  Martin suggests that Americans should focus on traveling more, and specifically for enthusiasts, to see more of the theme park industry aside from the usual parks that they visit.

 

Connecting the missing link

“Everything we know about history, we know because somebody went through papers, dug up things, and documented what happened.”

 

As part of his research, Martin has traced the early roots of entertainment, largely through the World’s Fair, long before the technology that we have today was available.  From the early nickelodeon attractions which involved watching movies through turning a crank, and glass that was painted and lit up by a candle, Martin makes the comparison between experiences like this and attractions that we enjoy now, such as the flying theater in Pigeon Forge.  Martin highlights “The New York Experience,” which was a standalone attraction in Manhattan, that was tech-savvy for its time, and later influenced what we observe today as being high-tech.

 

For more about Martin, you can connect with him through Farmingdale State College, follow him on Twitter, connect with him on LinkedIn, or follow his Flickr account, where he chronicles his adventures.

 

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 219: Jake Kilcup talks about reprofiling coasters, leaning on the process, and designing for the demographic

Jake Kilcup is the COO of Rocky Mountain Construction.  RMC is a fabricator and manufacturer of amusement rides and roller coasters. The company, based in Hayden, Idaho, USA, has become synonymous with the transformation of old wooden roller coasters into new hybrid attractions. In this episode, Jake tells about how he got started with RMC and what it’s been like growing the company over the last 12 years. 

 

Reprofiling coasters

 

"We’re trying to capture as much of that adrenaline rush as we can while still eliminating the risk."

 

Jake is very open about the high profile reprofiling projects RMC has been involved with such as New Texas Giant and Steel Vengeance. Working with great designers, they work diligently to recreate a feeling on a coaster layout that you may get when careening down a mountain or driving a dune buggy on a sand dune. Unlike fans who wait with anticipation before a ride opens, the RMC crew is knee-deep in all of the design and build details right up to opening day.  Jake says that sometimes an opening day will sneak up on them, when a fan can tell you how many days and hours it will be before the scheduled opening to the public. 

Leaning on the process

 

"Oh yeah, that’s the story we sold."

 

When asked about the process of designing a roller coaster, Jake took us through the process from meeting with the client, to the pitch, to design, testing and opening. It’s a long process, and Jake feels, based on RMC’s track record, that leaning on, or trusting the process, is the key to smooth operations. There will always be changes and roadblocks throughout the journey of building a large “gravity machine” and if you understand where you want to go and how you are going to get there, you can trust the established process. 

 

Once the ride is built, the process of seeing if what you sold to the client is actually what you built. Jake reiterates that with great design and build teams, more often than not the story you sold will be the story you deliver.

Designing for the demographic

 

“We make it rideable for the demographic. It’s smooth, it’s safe, it’s fun.”

 

Depending on the client needs or wants, RMC can design a coaster to fit the demographic the park is trying to appeal to. Some coasters will hold appeal for emerging coaster enthusiasts as well as more seasoned riders. In the case of a Steel Vengeance, for example, the intensity, height and speed will not be attractive to all riders, and that’s okay. The excitement of building coasters is that you can have such a wide variety of experiences and they can all be great.

 

To learn more about Rocky Mountain Construction: Rocky Mountain Construction

 

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 218: Doug Stagner talks about running a 67 year old startup, linking operations and marketing, and management by walking around

Doug Stagner is the President of Grant’s Farm and Busch Family Estate in St. Louis, MO.  With a career that began at SeaWorld San Diego in 1984, Doug held many roles with SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment at multiple parks across the United States.  In July 2021, Doug was hired at Grant’s Farm as Anheuser-Busch transitioned out of day-to-day operations.  In this interview, Doug talks about how Grant’s Farm is like a 67-year old startup, the importance of linking operations and marketing, and how management by walking around can help you gain full clarity of the guest experience, as well as the employee experience.

Running a 67-year old startup

 

"We're a 67-year old startup."

 

While Anheuser-Busch does not own Grant’s Farm, they have held the management contract since 1954.  Despite the transition out of operations, A-B is continuing to invest in the property to ensure its growth, as well as to preserve its legacy.  This presents a unique opportunity to create new ways that guests can learn about the property's history, as well as farm education, which serves the organization’s mission.

 

Doug also talks about the importance of bringing guests behind the scenes, specifically as it relates to the passionate care of animals, in order to properly tell the story of animals in professional care, which transfers to sustainable farming and education for guests at Grant’s Farm.  By focusing on processes and ensuring that guests are being served the best, this leads to operational changes that are intended to improve the business.

Linking operations and marketing

 

"If you get locked into thinking you know the answer, that can be dangerous."

 

When Doug oversaw the front gate at SeaWorld San Diego, he recalled that operations would occasionally be disconnected from the marketing department.  Doug shares the importance of the continual feedback loop between marketing and operations, and that he would have weekly meetings with Scott Rose, who oversaw advertising at the time.  To avoid a circumstance where you overpromise and underdeliver, marketing and operations should regularly be communicating.  However, if you underpromise too much, you may have the ability to overdeliver, but it may negatively impact the business, because under promising can set too low of an expectation.

 

Doug says that silos must be broken down, and that there are shared successes and shared failures.  The disconnect between the two departments is often due to individuals looking to achieve their own professional goals, without realizing that it is to the detriment of other elements of the business.  In order to help tear down these silos and so that everyone can be successful at their job, everyone, regardless of their role, should integrate themselves in the guest experience.  This means that back of house employees should regularly see front of house operations and how their own job impacts the guest experience.

Management by walking around

 

“How do we make a job better or a job easier?  Ask the person who’s doing it.”

 

Part of Doug’s leadership strategy includes rolling up his sleeves and leading by example.  A leader should never ask someone to do something that they themselves have not done or would not do themselves.  It’s important to recognize that it’s not just about being out in the field while it’s busy, but also while it’s slow to be able to have conversations with employees and guests alike to hear their suggestions and ideas.  Previously, Doug has hosted “Donuts with Doug” and also recently created an email box named “Ask Doug” to demonstrate open communication platforms amongst the entire team.

 

You don’t know what you don’t know, and you may be missing an opportunity if you aren’t speaking with the team members who are doing the job on a daily basis.  Something that perhaps you assumed was occurring in the operation might be different when you uncover the reality of the circumstance.  Don’t shy away from opportunities to learn, even if it might be information that you don’t want to hear.

To learn more about Grant’s Farm, visit www.grantsfarm.com.  Doug can be reached at doug.stagner@grantsfarm.com, as well as on LinkedIn.

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com

Episode 217: Scott Rose talks about aligning marketing & operations, guest research, and communicating through COVID

Scott Rose is the Senior VP/Chief Operating Officer ZooTampa at Lowry Park. Scott’s career spans many decades working at animal attractions such as SeaWorld, Discovery Cove, the Florida Aquarium and now ZooTampa. Scott has also been very involved with the Florida Attractions Association where he advocates for all attractions across the state. During this conversation, Scott shares insights about working with animals, aligning the Marketing and Operations departments and the importance of guest research.

 

Aligning Marketing and Operations

"Sometimes I find I am arguing with myself."

Marketing and Operations teams often have different agendas and tactics to complete their tasks. As COO, Scott now oversees both departments and has to not only balance the relationships, but also the objectives and deliverables - which he says is actually fun.

As a long-time sales and marketing professional, Scott recognizes that what those teams do have a big impact on the operation. Marketing wants to sell as much as they can, but then Operations has to deliver on it. Scott believes that to bring the teams together in a positive way takes communication and an understanding of what the other group is doing, as well as having an appreciation for what both departments contribute to the success of the zoo.

 

Guest Research

“We’ve expanded the program to get input from people who normally don’t comment on the guest experience.”

The quote above is referring to the “Host of the Day” program at ZooTampa. Every Saturday, a member of the ZooTampa team will come to the park, dressed as a guest, and they will bring their family. This form of guest research allows the experience to be evaluated from a different viewpoint from traditional research efforts, and the results provide leadership with a robust data set upon which to make key decisions. 

This program was originally designed just for senior leaders, but recently they have started to include members of the team who aren’t normally guest-facing or involved with the guest experience. This has proven to be invaluable in getting very candid feedback from people who are passionate about the zoo, but who also don’t necessarily know what SHOULD be happening, so they can experience the zoo with an open mind. 

 

Communicating through COVID

“In the attractions industry, we all went through this together and there was no playbook.”

Scott says that early on in the pandemic, the ZooTampa leadership team decided that they were going to come out of the pandemic stronger than ever, which meant working to bring back the 80% of their staff that they had to furlough when they shut down. While some employees chose other lines of work or were not comfortable coming back, every employee that was furloughed was offered re-employment and the majority of them did come back. 

According to Scott, one of the other key strategies during the pandemic was to continue to market the park, adjusting the communication for the new conditions. While other parks stopped or slowed down their advertising, ZooTampa did not take their foot off of the accelerator. Through social media and other channels, Scott said they used the shut-down period to tell their guests how they were taking care of the ZooTampa family and how they would be ready to welcome them back when it was safe to do so.

 

To learn more about ZooTampa: zootampa.org   

To connect with Scott directly: scott.rose@zootampa.org

 

This podcast wouldn't be possible without the incredible work of our amazing team:

• Audio and video editing by Abigail Giganan
• Scheduling and correspondence by Kristen Karaliunas
• Social media marketing by Kate Kujawa
• Branding and design by Fabiana Fonseca
• Email marketing by Sam Bercik

To connect with AttractionPros: attractionpros@gmail.com